How Your Band Can Become A Cash Machine Doing Joint Ventures With Other Bands Without Taking Undue Risks

 ("Don't Be A Musician That Doesn't Work At It Or Else It's Like The Lottery Where You Just Hope To Succeed") Mark Grove.  Also, a little tidbit in this piece on why most people are greedy, and why I don't want you to be as a musician. Most musicians who play regularly are into this life for themselves and can't see the big picture. What they don't realize is that by creating value for other musicians can, and will help them make money for the long term. Don't believe me do you?

You don't have to...

But just bear with me here. Just hear me out on this one guys. If you still don't believe me just ask bands who open for national acts. But you won't do that either, will you?

That's why I'm here to help you.

As well, just take a look in Guitar Player magazine in the articles and the ads. The musicians depicted in these ads make a good living earning nice chunks o' cash that most musicians will never hold in their greedy little hands.

What? you think the big name acts are the greedy ones?

I don't think so. Think about the Powerball lottery that's coming up. It's worth approximately half a billion. That's right. The lottery people that put it together did it to get the old greed glands of everyone who doesn't have a million bucks just salivating like an old man who's getting his face wiped by a good looking 25 year old female.

Doesn't have a chance in hell with her, but he'll play it up anyway cause he's a dirty old pecker. He'll pony up some cash anyway, and so will you.

Are you stupid? Stop thinking like everyone else and the rest of the musicians who won't work and think differently. You can do it lads.

These cash flush musicians started where you are, worked hard continually, and yes, got some breaks along the way.

If you and your band mates work hard and create value for other musicians and do some basic marketing off line, not on line you'll come out ahead. I gave you a golden nugget of a tip in one of my last articles on getting a rabid email fan list by using off line ways to do it.

Most business including getting gigs is done off line guys. Lets face it.

I guess I should start talking about Joint Ventures and working with other bands in off the beaten path ways to eventually start your money sucking siphon. You know the old saying she could suck a golf ball through a garden hose?

Well, the same principle applies to making money. Just don't make it so difficult as that though.

Okay, start talking to local musicians to develop relationships with them. You want ones who are in the same or similar type of music you're in. Why? It makes it easier to deal with. It's not a competition either. Don't start talking business either. Most musicians will be turned off  by such overtures at the get go.

Here's How To Get Results Fast:

Introduce yourself and don't start talking about your band. Ask them questions about their band. Before you talk to them do some investigative work though. Go see their band, look for them on the net and see if there are any articles done on them. Even if there are that tells you in what direction the writers went, so you can go in a different direction.

Chances are most bands don't have any articles on them that are based on their equipment or any real feature profiles on the whole band. Go in that direction.

If you need help with that, just email me.

Now, offer to interview this band and put that on your band website.If they are a known band see if you can have it published locally. Come up with questions that are different period. Equipment questions on the guitars and rigs thay use for their recording and live work.

Look at numerous articles I have on the blog as well for ideas. It could be on song writing, session playing or a profile on a band member.

Okay, here's what else you need to do.

Start talking to your local College radio, print and TV media sources. Like I keep saying they are the greatest sources for cultivating rabid music fans who want original and creative musicians who can entertain as well. And a great way to get free publicity.

Talk to College media regularly and get them interviews. Have press conferences as well. Just soak up all the local music media that can help a band. Now, here's where you start talking business. Took a while didn't it?

It's hard work but worth it.

Ask this band about opening for them. Keep on interviewing them. Audition for them not by doing a cold practice or audition at their rehearsal space. It doesn't give them a good indication of what your band is like. Have them come out to one of your gigs and announce the band that you're helping out, and even have them come on stage with you.

But that might not be the best way to do that. The latter part that is. Jam with them at a local jam session or at your practice. Then when you ask them on stage you're ready.

Keep interviewing them, and even offer to interview them at your gig. Don't put all the focus on your band. If all this band sees after that is what they can get out of it, move on to the next band. Remember our chat about greed?

If this band you're helping loves everything you're doing and asks you to open for them, great!

Now, keep doing media interviews for them and getting them coverage. Don't forget your band as well. Keep opening for them locally once a week, even if you have to play for free for a while for them while your band gets paying gigs. You can even have them open for you.

Think about where this other band might be losing like in CD sales or getting an email list or a lot fans coming to gigs. Keep on doing free publicity for them. But offer to sell their CDs at gigs for them for a cut of at least 15 percent. That's another way to make extra cash for your band. You can even offer to write liner notes for their CDs and review their CDs and gigs.


If you're a good promoter you may want to consider helping getting their band members session work as well and taking 10 percent of the cut. If you do everything I've laid out in the former, these bands would be more than willing to give up a small percentage of their CD sales and session work cash for other band members.

Creating massive value for other bands will help you get money period. If this band has a tough time getting gigs by themselves, offer to be their bookers. For a cut of the action of course. If this band you're helping is making your band extra money but they won't work hard to get to the next level, either say we'll just help you sell CDs and get you bookings, but we won't be your little bitches.

You have to work together. You have to be willing to fail. If you can't then you're screwed and doomed.

But most bands will want want you're offering. Media help, article writing and interviews, selling their CDs and getting them bookings. Have this other band reciprocate and interview your band members as well.

If you work with a band that sees that through hard work, co-operation and creating value for other bands is working, then you have a winner. Just focus on saturating the local music media who can help you, that being the college media who are savvy and creative. And they can get the right music fans out to your gigs.

Do joint press conferences with bands you help, that way there's a double whammy in a media blitz like that. After you've gotten lots of local media and have played regularly for at least 6 months to a year at the most, start playing regionally. One to 2 hours away from your town at the most.

For the area I live the best places to play 2 hours away are Toronto or Detroit. Start cultivating the media there, and helping other bands while you still work with this other band. You can literally start a small music empire.

If you as a musician are a bit of a contrarian like me and want to help other musicians and your band, you can and will do well in Joint Ventures with other bands. You could even start asking for money for writing media material for other bands. But we'll focus on making money gigging, booking, selling CDs at gigs and getting media coming to your door and creating a music and media empire of your own making.

If you need help with this, just email me. mdgrove@rock.com

How You As A Musician Can Profit From Independent Musicians And Record Labels

By Mark Grove

"If you help enough musicians and create value for them, you'll succeed not just financially, but in the heart"
12/27/04

This article is a repost many of my readers want to see again and learn from on how to make money not just as a gigging musician, but serving other bands and benefiting from indie bands and labels. Basically, how to make money selling other band's CD's, promoting them and possibly managing or booking them.

Making money with your own band will limit most bands. Most bands don't make the kind of cash they deserve, and working in profitable Joint Ventures with bands, labels and agencies can be a great way to diversify and focus on one thing in music and making a good living from what you love, being a musician.

As well, making money as a musician in off the beaten path ways can challenge you and your band not just to be creative, but be sought after by bands, labels and agencies. Sounds good doesn't it?

Major labels decide whether your demo material will make it past the listening stage. In most cases it won't. Not because of any lack of ability or vision, but something that will sell big.This is why most bands should go the indie route.


For those musicians who simply hate major labels, and what A &R reps at majors think constitutes good music. Their chances of success at a major are slim to none. They know they're better off at a solid indie who's A & R staff understand their music,  or starting a label of their own.


Majors, because of the growing trend toward Independent labels and artists, majors will attempt more and more to corner the indie market and "partner up" with indies basically to either take them over at the expense of the bands the label brought into the deal. Meaning, if a band doesn't sell what a major wants they are usually over looked for bands that do sell.

Artist development at the major label is usually frowned upon for obvious reasons, and a band that sells 50,000 copies one year and 40,000 the next is considered a flop. In order for Indie/Major deals to flourish, band by band deals would be more suited to an indie's structure and distribution deals which Majors are good and will have to be the norm.

The days of offering promotional and tour support, and paying for studio time in order to recoup later off a band's sales and tour income--will be curtailed--if Major labels hope to have a future or good business relationships with indie labels or artists.

The future of Major label acts:

There are more and more alternative and metal acts ending up on major's and producing gold or platinum sales figures. But with the way they run their operation's strictly from a sales aspect the talent gets watered down because they want acts that produce numbers.

There are good talent pools within major label's, they just don't know how to use them to benefit the artist and develop them as they come along.The same can be said for the people who work at a Major and get shuffled out with the people that were there when a band first came into the major fold. There are good and bad A& R consultants at this level. Bands will have to have some knowledge of the business end of major/indie deals to succeed.

Read the article on hiring a Manager to learn the ins and outs of doing deals with people who think they're your friends. Indies in the future will do deals with majors will not be content with royalties in the 10 to 20 percent range. They will want to procure the lion's share which is rightfully theirs anyway. A&R will have to understand where an artist is coming from artistically and where they want their vision to take them.

If an A&R rep at a major represents metal acts which seems to be the trend currently and does not understand the music, and just sees numbers and not the progression of the artists music, then that rep has failed in the development of that artist. That's not to say that that an A&R specialist would not do well in a different genre of music where they click with the music, and the artist which is what we ultimately would like to see.

How about you?


A& R opportunities for indie artists like you:

There will be more opportunities with small and mid level size indie labels as A&R reps, and in artist relations for people who understand the music and not just the numbers. But for those who are go getters and choose to start their own labels and keep their grassroots following, finding their own niche and working with the bands to develop their music, not just a following.

Craig Aaronson Sr.Vice President of A& R at Warner Bros. said in an interview with Taxi the A& R specialist said A& R at Majors in the future would be used more in actually signing bands and overseeing the marketing of records. Once again my take on this subject differs from these major label people. These guys don't get it, do they!


Even at the Major level A& R reps should realize they should stick to figuring out if a certain band has material that is strong, original and whether it's right for the label and work to develop their material based on a bands vision not the label's. If A& R reps start doing other duties such as marketing and tour support they will lose their focus on a band and any artist progression will go right out the window.


Overall, I think that Independent labels and artists should work as a team to develop their own A& R divisions which help develop the artist and not hinder it. Majors that do start smaller labels dedicated to certain types of music can help an artist. But they still see it as one more way to dip into the Indie Pool at the expense of naive artists who are conned into giving up hefty portions of their album and merchandise sales. As well as tour support which are recouped afterwards.



Learning to spot opportunities outside the fray:

Learning how to start your own label can be one of the smartest moves you make to protect your songs and being able to write off any expenses to do with the business of music. If you're determined enough you will start recruiting artists and bands to submit material to you to be critiqued, and to see if their material is strong enough and suitable for your label.


This way you start your own A&R division within your own label. But remember to start letting musicians submit material that is within one genre first before spreading into different types of music. If you start letting any one submit material whether it's Metal or country, you won't be able to focus on one and have no direction.


One band at a time is what to focus on, and your biggest outlay will be for recording and making CDs to sell. So I usually say you should do short runs of 300 to start. A lot of people in the industry would not agree with me, but you need to be on the conservative side when coming out with an initial release.


As well protect your artists material at all costs by having them become members of publishing societies which collect royalties on behalf of musicians.


Selling your album takes ingenuity and innovation. So selling off stage and on line is your best bet. Having a band website is essential not to promote just the CD but the band as well. Promotion is important as well and once again don't go for mainstream radio or magazines. Don't waste your time sending CD's to every radio station or magazine and wasting your precious money. You are in this to make money not give out free stuff! Opt for College radio and online magazines which cater to your music.


Start at the local level and build from there as you begin booking out of town gigs. Other opportunities musicians should consider is writing articles on aspects of music they understand. Interview other bands as well on your website which draws more musicians and fans to it. Write reviews on equipment you use and ask if the manufacturer is looking for distributors. You could sell their equipment off your site in turn for writing articles on their products. You have to give before you get guys.


There are many ways to make money on the internet for musicians and I tell them to never give up. Look for other markets internationally to sell your Cd's. Possibly in Europe or the far east. Distribution deals and licensing out your album can work well if you have the drive to improve your musicianship and help others in the business with your own label or band.



A & R at the indie level will emerge big in the future and you might consider starting not just your own label but an A & R consultancy to help musicians figure out where they should be taking their music.


For me music is pretty much all I want to do and I don't feel I'm missing out on anything by doing just that. If you don't love music enough you won't do what's necessary, not just to succeed at it but do what you really want in life, and that's the spiritual benefit and accolades that come with being in the music industry and being a musician.


Mark Grove-CGP

Musicians, How To Stop Being Allergic To Success

Most musicians don't realize how money is really made in the music business or in any other business for that matter. Just the way it is. I'm not here to slag or put down anyone. That's not my intention. You need to hear the real goods guys.

By the way, this is a classic picture of Plant kissing Band Manager Peter Grant. Most bands wish they had good relationships with their managers or agents ,but don't. Most of what I say falls on deaf ears but I keep moving in this biz despite the naysayers. Most marginal bands seem to think that making money as a musician is some kind of mystical transaction that only happens to a privileged few. O you seem to think they must be doing something illegal or immoral to get major bookings.

Think what you want but I'll tell you like it is.

Why you Need a Thick Skin As a Musician

If you can't grow a thick skin as a musician or band you are basically going to make peanuts or give up altogether.

Here's a personal story.

 I worked with someone in the music business in 1985 and 86 booking blues bands in Southern Canada and the US Northeast. We were making some decent cash as an agency but nothing spectacular. We still worked regular jobs and worked doing something we loved. One day I went to use some of the agency money from our joint bank account which was at almost 9 grand in january 1986. To my dismay I saw that the account was in overdraft. What!

It seems that my business partner had literally absconded with the agency loot to the US and sought his fortune in the booking agency game in the US. I was pissed off for about a week when I realized that it was useless to try and get the cash back. He was in hiding until all this blew over. He was a bit of a wise guy who always took bold moves.

I was told by many others including relatives to get my cash back. To call the coppers. Why?

He was gone even though I knew I would see him someday even 20 years from then. I still had my own money and a good standing with people in the music business. I did see him but I just ignored him.

But wait...

The 2 blues bands we were handling got wind of all of this and decided to fly the agency coop and move on. Even though it didn't affect their bottom line they thought it did. They had friends tell them to get away from us and any agents and fly solo. They flew solo for a while and ended up quitting the biz. Too bad, they were great blues cats.

They could not develop a thick skin period.


I still had bookings for them lined up, and they were so adamant about going solo it affected their bookings and how much cash they were making. These bands thought I was doing something wrong and illegal regardless of it not affecting them. Figures. You think bands with major agencies worry about everything that happens as some sort of crisis? Hardly. They deal with it and move on. Don't give me any crap about them being better than other musicians and they have nothing to worry about.

They take care of business period.

I just got back to work booking bands and helping them media wise. That's all there is to it guys.


A Grave Warning For You The Musician:

You'll need to become immune to what happens to you and your band or the people who represent you, or become an also ran who gives up at the first sign of trouble.

You're not like that?  Are you?

The only blame a musician and agent should get is an inability to work together, or the inability of an agent to get bookings, or your band to not see that you have to actually work hard at this.

Only money made should ever get a vote in this music life.

Your Girlfriend or wife doesn't get a vote either, even though she thinks she does.

And neither does your Mother-In Law who hates with a passion the fact that her little girl married a musician. No she doesn't get a vote.

And other musicians other than your band don't get a vote either.

And most of all friends of yours who have something negative to say all the time about how you'll never make it, don't get a vote or a say in your life either. Don't let anyone have a say if they aren't involved directly in making cash for your band.

Can You Still grow a Thick Skin?

I really hope so. That way you can live out your dreams as a musician.

There is no better time than right now to start creating a thick skin so hard, that anything that happens in your music career you can deal with like a pro. If you can deal with the BS of the music industry and have a thick skin, then I have the perfect medication for you and your band.

And it's totally free.

Our free report is on how to work with other bands, open for them, create media for them and even book them and sell their CDs for a cut of action! You can even develop profitable cash centers that help your band make money working with indie labels as writers and promoters.

Your band will receive free monthly reports with tips on music business, guitar and gear tips and  receive a Free Musicians Instant Press Kit for 3 months from us here at Canadian Guitar Player. Stay tuned for more on the freebie press kit.

All for free and a lot more.

Just send us your email and name to:mdgrove@rock.com

Or you can click the big fat subscriber button in the right hand corner of our site. Just put your email and name in there.

Much success to all musicians, and I know you can develop that thick skin.

Mark Grove